DocFrankenstein
DocFrankenstein

Gay Marriage Anyone?

Given that it is Pride Week, it seemed appropriate to me to open up discussion on this issue. It looks likely that the judge in the Prop. 8 case will rule against the measure and that it will get appealed up to the California Supreme Court and that eventually it will makes it way up to US Supreme Court. How do people feel about gay marriage?

Oh, here is an article about it that appeared on SF Gate:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/06/16/BA3N1DVIFO.DTL
The opinions expressed here are those of the individual and not those of StreetAdvisor.
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NightOwlnOrinda
NightOwlnOrinda 2yrs+
Well, I'm for it and against Prop. 8. I thought it was a sad state of affairs that on the same night that we found out that we were going to get our first African American president, we also found out that California was going to take a huge step back.
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DocFrankenstein
DocFrankenstein 2yrs+
Some people would actually say that it was because Obama won that Prop. 8 lost. Many of the same African American voters who came out for Obama, voted for Prop. 8.
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NightOwlnOrinda
NightOwlnOrinda 2yrs+
I think the Prop. 8 supporters were just better organized and better funded. I remember that there were call centers in Salt Lake City that were calling people in California to convince them to support it. They had a lot of money behind it too. And didn't it barely squezze by.
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DocFrankenstein
DocFrankenstein 2yrs+
It was 51%, if I remember correctly. And they did use the usual scare tactics. You might remember that commercial that said that if Gay Marriage became law they would teach grammer school children about homosexuality. They really did appeal to the worst fears that people have, but it worked.
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NightOwlnOrinda
NightOwlnOrinda 2yrs+
It's only a matter of time. People who are against gay marriage are getting older and older. If you ask young college age people you will hardly find anyone that thinks its wrong.
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DocFrankenstein
DocFrankenstein 2yrs+
I'm not so sure about that. I teach college and I come into contact with young people all the time. If you ask them in a group what their views are on gay marriage, you won't really find anyone who openly voices an opinon against them. But when you get some of them on alone and question them more thorougly (especially if you present yourself as not being totally for it), you will find that some them are just as against it as their parents and grandparents. In other words, I wonder if this next generation won't just end up just as divided as the last when all is said and done.
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NightOwlnOrinda
NightOwlnOrinda 2yrs+
I really don't think so. I think gay marriage will be like interracial marriage. In twenty years, only the most bigotted and backwards enclaves will still be against it.
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DocFrankenstein
DocFrankenstein 2yrs+
Well, hopefully the courts will back us up because we certainly aren't going to be getting any help from Obama. Don't ask, don't tell is all the LBGT community is going to get from Barack.
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NightOwlnOrinda
NightOwlnOrinda 2yrs+
I think he has a enough on his plate without trying to take on gay marriage. It would be nice if we had it, but I don't think that Obama should expend political capital on it.
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DocFrankenstein
DocFrankenstein 2yrs+
Yes, but if he wants to be a transformative president, I think this is something he needs to address.
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NightOwlnOrinda
NightOwlnOrinda 2yrs+
I am far more worried about the environment than about gay marriage. Don't get me wrong, the gay marriage ban is a immoral and unjust, but its not of the same magnitude as the environment, the wars, or the economy. I mean Bush really left Obama holding the Bag.
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DocFrankenstein
DocFrankenstein 2yrs+
Fair enough, but he can do more than one thing at a time. He doesn't have to only focus on two or three things.
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NightOwlnOrinda
NightOwlnOrinda 2yrs+
I really don't think he can. Remember how Clinton got off on the wrong track right out of the gates. That's how we got "Don't ask, don't tell," in the first place. Clinton wasted his opportunity and what did he end up accomplishing? Welfare Reform? He got healthcare bogged down and then after the Republicans came in '94 he was pretty much little more than a lame duck for the next six years.

If Obama is going to get anything done he needs to focus like a lazer on the enviroment and then maybe immigration. I have a feeling he will get his wing's clipped after the midterms and then who knows what we'll get in the 2012. President Palin!?
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DocFrankenstein
DocFrankenstein 2yrs+
No, Palin won't beat Obama. She might have credibility with the Teabaggers, but she's lost all credibility with everyone else I think. I just don't see her getting that back. And I don't think she wants it anyway. She'll still be around to annoy those of us who believe in reason and expertise, but she's done politically.
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NightOwlnOrinda
NightOwlnOrinda 2yrs+
Your mouth to God's ears, Doc!
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NightOwlnOrinda
NightOwlnOrinda 2yrs+
Anyway, that's it for me for tonight. Good talk though.
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DocFrankenstein
DocFrankenstein 2yrs+
Sleep tight Owl.
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FlowerGirl
FlowerGirl 2yrs+
Who needs marriage anyway. Maybe we should just get rid of the whole thing.
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FlowerGirl
FlowerGirl 2yrs+
I don't know why the gays want a part of dieing institution.
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NightOwlnOrinda
NightOwlnOrinda 2yrs+
I'm not sure that there is a better institution, dieing or not, for raising kids. I just don't see the "village" taking on the role of parents.
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FlowerGirl
FlowerGirl 2yrs+
I'm not sure how much of a difference a piece of paper and some diamond rings makes in the overall scheme of things. It certainly didn't make my abscentee father take any more responsibility for me.
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NightOwlnOrinda
NightOwlnOrinda 2yrs+
It's more than a piece of paper though. When you get up infront of your circle of friends and make that commitment, it changes your psychology, your way of approaching the world. And your community treats you different too.
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FlowerGirl
FlowerGirl 2yrs+
It should be enough that people just have agreed to commit to each other. We shouldn't have to have a whole contract drawn up.
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DocFrankenstein
DocFrankenstein 2yrs+
I think that it is ironic that the many of the supporters of Prop. 8 who helped to get it passed were based in Utah, given that's states fraught history when it comes to the subject of marriage. Whenever some one bring up the idea of same-sex marriage, opponents inevitably go to the slippery slope argument that if you allow same-sex mariage won't you need to allow plural marriage, and if you allow that, why not marriages with animals or children, etc. etc.
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FlowerGirl
FlowerGirl 2yrs+
But that's just silly. It's like the arguments against same-sex marriage that say that the purpose of marriage is only for raising kids. So should infertile people not be allowed to get married?
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NightOwlnOrinda
NightOwlnOrinda 2yrs+
Bringing in plural marriage is just a way of clouding the issue. Plural marriage should be considered on its own terms.
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DocFrankenstein
DocFrankenstein 2yrs+
The same arguments can be used for both. Both are an understanding between adults that challenge the traditional view of marriage.
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The opinions expressed here are those of the individual and not those of StreetAdvisor.
FlowerGirl
FlowerGirl 2yrs+
Actually, isn't it monogamy that is the challenge to traditional views of marriage. Didn't Moses have 800 wives. I mean once you start limiting marriage to just two people isn't that just a slippery slope towards the point where no one can get married?
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The opinions expressed here are those of the individual and not those of StreetAdvisor.

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