Should Central Park's famed horse carriage rides be banned?

Goodness, yes! I always wondered how it could be that one of the wealthiest neighborhoods imaginable would stink of hosesh-t 24/7.

Yeah horses are lovely but the smell and the mess.... I won't miss them if they go; they're sort of ridiculous.

But - but - but - they're TRADITION! I agree that the horses should be treated much better, but I don't mind the smell - a carriage ride in NYC is one of those real classic must-dos...

Tradition or not, I never rode one. I think it might be cool to ride one. But not in the dead of winter. It is too cold to ride in any type of carriage now. But it isn't necessary to stop the business. Find a way to take better care of the horses.

I doubt that the carriages are going anywhere - I wonder how much revenue those things actually pull in?

@BroadwayBK they seem quite popular with tourists and the standard rides cost $34 for 17 minutes -here are the details-http://www.centralpark.com/pages/activities/horse-drawn-carriages.html

$34 isn't so bad, actually, compared to plenty of other tourist attractions ($50 per person for the top of the Empire State Building! and $40 for two tickets for the worst comedy club on the planet, complete with $15 per person drink minimum that didn't include food) And it certainly is scenic - especially in the snow - it's cold, but they supply blankets! I've only been a couple of times, but I remember the ride quite fondly.

The money is kind of high, but compared to prices of a ticket to a show, it is low. I wouldn't mind riding one when it gets warm, so I hope the horse and carriage system continues.

But come on guys, the stink? Does no one want the stink to go away?

To be honest, @uraniumfish, I've never really noticed it! I think all in all that there are so many, ahem, pungent smells in NYC they all kind of just fade into one.

@uraniumfish One vote for ridding the park of the stink over here.... I have definitely noticed it.

The stink can be controlled. You must have a sensitive nose, Uraniumfish. I get around the horses and the smell isn't that bad.

Naw, but the stink is...so much greater than the normal NYC stink. So much more...volume to that stink. This is not garbage stink, let's remember.

I guess there is one way around it, uraniumfish. You can either hold your nose till you get out of the area, take a deodorizer with you and spray the area, or wear a gas mask to block the smell. Hopefully that will help with the smell.

Yah, I would look very elegant and fit right in with the mid-town crowd, wearing my gas mask around, no? Maybe I do have a sensitive nose.

Everyone needs a gas mask during the summer, anyway, so perhaps the trend will catch on....

@Uraniumfish if you were in Hong Kong you would fit right in with your gas mask. People on the roads and subways there hell even on my Cathay Pacific flight have no qualms wearing masks to presumably ward off the H1N1 virus. I guess all their paranoia stems from their SARS experience...

I've seen these random people in airports and wondered what that was about...

Ha ha...I can see everyone wearing a gas mask. That is funny. Then again maybe not...

found a recent note telling the animal rights side of the story: http://www.notfortourists.com/viewRadar.aspx?city=NY&radarID=26855 I'm not for or against carriage rides, and I've never been one of those bunny hugging people - we are built to be omnivores, people! - but I do wonder just how much stress these animals are under, or if like us they can get used to anything.

@NeverSleeps: You make good points. Just how much stress do the animals take during the course of the day. Unfortunately, we will never know, since the animals can't talk.

@hhusted I'm sure there are way of telling an unhealthy animal from a healthy one? Apparently animals get stressed out too: http://www.livescience.com/animals/081017-animals-stress.html

I think it's really mean to do what they do to those horses. No matter what kind of feelings and thoughts animals may or may not have, I don't think there's a creature on Earth that wants to be shackled in the concrete for other people's entertainment. Look at how many people kill themselves just from a self imposed shackling to a desk.

@JenMac Amen.

Let's free the people from desks before we worry about the horses, I say.

@BroadwayBK I second that..

I think I'm on the more for people, less for animals side too. Not that I'll start whipping horses anytime soon...

@BroadwayBK: You are right. I didn't think about it. I heard that animals do show stress, but it didn't come to my mind at the time I wrote that post. Thanks for bringing it to mind with the link.

Man I wish someone would swoop in here and free me from my self-imposed desk... Sigh. I wonder who even goes on those carriage rides, besides ajadedidealist, Carrie and Mr Big? Assuming the answer is tourists, I have to say that I'd rather have the tourist attraction bringing some New Yorkers and their families some money than worry about what the horses are feeling.

I don't really think these carriages are in danger of going anywhere... There are always some animal rights activists crying about something. @uptowngirl What were you reading that said Bloomberg and Patterson were worried about these horses? Seems a really weird thing to care about in these difficult financial times; I feel like both of them should have better things to do.

Here's the article BroadwayBK http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100127/FREE/100129905 Sadly in this city sometimes ( this is a personal opinion) I feel some people care more about animals then their fellow humans.

@uptowngirl So an acquaintance I was talking to a while back who works for the city was complaining about how unfulfilled she feels with her work. Never mind that working for the city means financial stability, great health care, etc. When I asked her what she would rather do, she said she would love to open an animal shelter. Guess what her current job is, folks? She works for the department that deals with abused and under-privileged children! I asked her, but doesn't helping all those kids mean anything to you and isn't it at all rewarding? She said, Naw, not really. Jeepers. Some people.

@ Everybody All I'm saying is, since I don't live in the neighborhood, why do I care whether they keep the carriage rides or not. But if it were my neighborhood those smelly horses were traipsing in, I would raise a stink about it (pun intended!)

Sometimes - okay, a lot of the time - it's more rewarding to care for animals than it is for people.

I'm with NeverSleeps on this one. I guess I'm one of those crying animal activists, but when you have an animal, you realize pretty quickly how much more appreciative, loving, and cool they can be than the large majority of humans.

Yeah, okay, but come on? Abused children? Sure they're not going to follow you around the room wagging their tail but they deserve a little TLC?

Not saying they don't deserve a lot of TLC, just that animals are most of the time easier to deal with.

uraniumfish: I don't think that anyone is saying that there aren't other causes that deserve attention. But, some people just feel more inclined to help animals. It's not something that should be slighted. At least they want to help stick up for something that can't fight for itself. Whether it be animals, children, seniors . . whatever. A lot of times it has to do with something you have had a personal encounter with. . . the brutality of something you love. I adopted a dog that was so horribly abused that the vet didn't think anyone would actually adopt him. I have lived in the same house with that creature for years now, and I have developed a severe sensitivity to what they can sense and perceive. I don't think it makes anyone ridiculous for only having so much time and money to donate and choosing to spend that on an issue that is close and dear over something that isn't necessarily so apparently visceral.

@everyone I am with Uraniumfish on this one, not that I don't love animals but abused children definitely deserve a lot of TLC. Perhaps it is easier to deal with animals but I don't think I could ever ever ignore or not want to help an abused child. The stories like the case of Nixmary Brown ( http://www.nixzmarybrown.info/) just breaks my heart can't understand beasts like these can easily produce children while those folk who want to and can provide a loving home for a child are denied the chance to have children and have to undergone expensive ,stressful procedures to try and produce a child.

@Uraniumfish: What happens with people is they work at a job for so long, they get bored with it. Or they take the job for granted in some way. For those people, they need to either take a vacation or find another job to go into that is more stimulating. I have a friend, who told me she gets frustrated with people because of their attitudes. When she feels that way, she leans toward animals and has the attitude that animals are better than humans. It really is the attitude of people that can get on your nerves. Attitudes are developed as part of the person's personality. Often, if you see someone doing, acting, or talking in a certain way, you repeat that. And that action, feeling, or thought sticks with you for the rest of your life. This is why you can get along with certain people, while other people are hard to get along with. On a side note: I can't stand child abuse either. I refuse to see a child get abused. I will say something when I am a witness to it.

All this talk of neglected kids is making me want to join the Big Sister program or something.... though admittedly I am sort of awkward with kids.

I personally don't have kids and am awkward with them myself, but that doesn't mean I won't allow someone to harm one, especially in my presence.

@BroadwayBK Maybe all the better reason to become a Big Sister. You're supposed to learn from it too... :)

It's a lot of responsibility to deal with kids. By being a Big Brother or Big Sister, helps one develop the needed discipline to handle the kids.

@DBlack You may be on to something...

@Guys, JenMac I don't think anyone is saying that people who care about animals are ridiculous for their compassion. Maybe the point here is that to care for another person, with all the emotional and visceral complexities of it, is a much higher order of caring and compassion. And it seems that there are very few people willing to risk themselves emotionally on that much higher level and work that hard, all for the sake of having a connection with another human being. I can tell you: having a child is HARD! And I'm not talking about changing diapers, but about the worry of it. The fear never goes away. Not since I became a father did I worry about the state of the world, or about what the world will be like when I die, because my daughter will have to inherit it and will have to navigate this place on her own, and I won't be able to PROTECT HER any more. It has kept me up nights. It never goes away.

@DBlack I dont have kids yet but have nephews who I absolutely adore .. I used to live in a joint family in India was was involved to a certain extent in their upbringing and can totally understand what you are saying. I have to also add that the birth of my nephews has also sensitized me to the plight of children around the world and I really can't stand to hear about abuse or injustice to children anywhere.

Raising kids is too difficult to deal with in this world. For those who do so, I commend you for doing it. I'm glad I don't have kids. This way I don't have to deal with the worry of what my kids get into.

Thank you, DBlack and uptowngirl.

@DBlack @uptowngirl That's really touching. I think having kids is an integral part of life - like you don't fully understand what it is to love someone until you have kids. Of course I am just speculating here.

I'm way too young to be thinking about kids - that said, I look forward to that part of my life. But I couldn't imagine having kids and not being ready for them - ie, not having felt that I'd lived enough of my life that children were the Next Step as opposed to a setback. My mother had me at 40 - which meant that she never felt that having a kid had hurt her career - I wouldn't want to be waiting quite that long, but I can see the appeal in waiting a fair bit of time.

@Ajadedidealist:Not to tell you what to do with your life, it would be a great idea to wait a while. Don't be in a rush. Because once you have kids, you have a heavy responsibility. You stated your mother didn't have you until she was 40. My mother didn't have me until I was 40 as well. I think the later you have kids, it gives you a chance to live life to the fullest, so later when you do have kids, you can't complain so much that you didn't have fun first. That is just my take on it. Others may feel differently.

I'm not ready to have kids at all... but I've been seriously thinking about being a Big. Does anyone know of anyone who has participated in NYC's Big Brother/Sister programs?

Good point, @hhusted. I've got a boyfriend who is interested in marriage/kids quite young, so it's always a balancing act. For me, I always imagined early-to-mid-thirties as "the right" time, but one never knows where life takes us!

Also, my friend was a Big Sister and found it enormously rewarding - I'd highly recommend it as a good way of making a very personal/individual difference in someone's life

@Ajadedidealist: the mid-thirties is a good time to get married. Many people I know have gotten married between the ages of 28 - 36, and have been married for quite a while. Some have kids and some don't. Again, it is a personal choice.

Perhaps oddly, I have no objection to getting married quite young, but having kids young feels like an absolutely terrifying/enormous step.

@Well, consider this, ajadedidealist. When you have kids, most of your life stops. At least that is what my friends, who have kids, told me. They said your life would center around your kids. You wouldn't have as much free time as you would otherwise. But the joy of having kids kind of makes it all worthwhile. Of course, that depends on how you feel about having kids. Other people may have different feelings about it. The bottom line is to enjoy your life now while you have a chance, because if/when you do have kids, you will have a heavy responsibility on your hands.

@Everyone here's an update to the horse issue- apparently they are to get larger stalls and even vacation time in the future.. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g2MF1WsCz00-DWlD9-qGI7sYpHqwD9F32LT86

Man... did those carriages not already have emergency breaks!!!

And those rates... I wonder if the higher prices will make up for the fewer rides people will probably take?

Haha! The horses practically get more vacation time than most workers.

Yeah, except for the horses don't get paid . . .

I still don't feel sorry for the horses. What is wrong with me!

Aw, here's an article about the issues: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/18/weekinreview/18murphy.html

Ok. Dude. Fine, horses need vacations. But so do people. Why is no one crying for all of the poor people who have to work three jobs year-round whilst raising five children?

The poor people aren't slaves being held in a job against their will.

Um, weeell, crappy jobs can't always be said to be willingly done. I mean, no one's forcing you to work a nasty, low-paid job and trade in your dignity besides, you also have the freedom of...finding some other nasty, low-paid job that impinges on your dignity...

Right, the poor people should just get better jobs and become rich. I mean, what are they thinking working three jobs at once! So dumb.

@ajadedidealist I like how that one lady in the article says that carriage horses shouldn't actually have vacations. I think we should listen to her, and then the problem would be solved. It doesn't really seem to me that these animals are being mistreated?

I don't mind it really. I don't think I've been to a city that didn't have carriage rides, and that includes some pretty sketch country towns. If it's a question of abuse, then why isn't PETA jumping all over it? I feel like the government has bigger issues, and Patterson definitely has more than horses to worry about these days... '

@bellacaroline He sure does ...Patterson I mean..

@Everybody: I was down around 57th St and 6th Ave recently and saw the horses. I think they are really cute. I also saw a carriage that a man was peddling. How can he peddle that thing if a person, or even two people get in who weigh almost a ton. He must have strong legs.

@bellacaroline Well said. And it doesn't seem to me that these horses are being mistreated whatsoever.

I've actually always wanted to ride one at least once when visiting New York. As for horse stink, well I grew up around it. So, I only notice it if I haven't smelled it for a while. Believe me, if you have ever gone to Nampa, ID at the wrong time when the beet factory was going, the smell goes right across town. It's like sewer. When it comes to horses I don think they should be treated with respect. I'm very much againast animal cruelty and if anything is hirribly wrong, I hope the Animal Police get involved.

Sorry for mispelling my kids are distracting me. LOL

I think the horse rides are a horrible idea, the horses are ill treated and stand on the concrete ground all day in the cold or the heat so the driver can make a few bucks. Horses do not belong in a city! I hope the mayors crack down on them for inhuman treating of the horses!

@hhusted that contraption is called a pedi-cab...I think its quite popular with tourists especially in the summer months

I nearly got a job as a pedi-cab driver one summer! I got a different gig in the end (also, I was seventeen...and a very small girl) but I was definitely keen on trying it out...

@Uptowngirl: Yeah, you are probably right. Although, I haven't seen anyone ride one yet. @Ajadedidealist: It would seem to me anyone riding those pedi-cabs would have to be strong legged and also know their way around the city very well.

I was talking to a girl from the south yesterday who grew up riding horses. She used to teach horseback riding up at 88th but quit because she said she couldn't take how awful the living conditions were for the animals. She said horses are very easily scared and shouldn't be surrounded by that kind of traffic, that when they go "home" its basically a tiny cell where they can't even turn around and it's way too cold for them in the winter. Apparently, the vacation time is so that they can go out to a field and run around like they are meant to do for a couple weeks a year which sounds like the least the city can do.

Yeah, but the lady in that article that..somebody...posted said that working horses get used to being on vacation and aren't too good at working when they are put back in that situation. So is the solution just to get rid of all horses in the city?

Well, I know the latter - @hhusted - but yes, not quite strong enough for the former!

( I do not wish to state the carriage co I was with, it wasn't NY lets just say its one really close to NY) Look I quit after my second day working for a carriage co. run in a city, its bad. Unless you actually go behind the curtain and look for yourself, you will never realize how bad it really is. My story is to long to tell but I have a degree in equine science and after what I saw happen to these horses and how they are treated it is shameful. I could not believe it. A day after I quit on April 19 2010 a car hit several carriages, one guy lost an ear, one guy broke an arm and a woman went flying over a fence into a yard. I am an eye witness to mistreatment of horses in a carriage co and a day after this a car hits a carriage. 2 reasons right there they should be banned. ( the car hit the same carriage co and yes if I stayed I would of been one of the ones hurt)

@jedi44 That's crazy... I never even thought about the possibility of a horse carriage and car colliding! That's terrible.

Sounds like what happens to bikers in car accidents...

@Jedi44 Gosh that's awful!

That sounds terrible! I can't imagine horses and/or cars going fast enough to cause serious damage, but I imagine it must certainly happen now and then...

Wow, now I have that grotesque image in my head...

Aw, what an awful thought! A car and horses colliding can't be a pretty sight. Has anyone ever thought about who cleans up that kind of a mess? Because it definitely has to be somebody's job to clean up after something like that.

@DBlack uhhhm the street cleaners ? or does the city have special cleaners for homicides and such..wasn't there a movie about that recently?http://www.sunshinecleaning-themovie.com/?

@Everyone here's an article that mentions a company called Bio-Recovery which is based in Long Island City specializes in these kind of gory clean ups! http://amny.com/urbanite-1.812039/cleaning-up-gory-scenes-1.1627979

That's one job I'm rather glad I don't have...

@Everybody: It is for the reason of accidents that perhaps horse carriages should be banned in the city.

@uptowngirl Did you see what they earn?! $25 an hour is nothing for such a gross job. Plus, the article didn't really mention who pays this company's fees, which would be interesting to know. Is it the city who pays?

@Uptowngirl:I just took a look at the article and, although I don't mind doing what the Bio-Recovery team do (the pay is not too bad), I don't like the inconsistent work.

I wouldn't clean up splattered people guts for $25/ hour. It seems like the pay is lousy for what the work is. But in any case even if it's inconsistent, there seems to be a steady demand...

@ajadedidealist A car doesn't really have to be going that fast to cause some serious damage. @Uraniumfish Me neither...

@Uraniumfish Me neither. Another job that I'm glad is done by someone else other than me.

@Everyone I wouldn't be able to stomach the work either..

Man... how does one even get such a gruesome job? Think I will pass as well.

I'm glad I am a writer and don't have to do it. Yuck.

Yeah, garbage technicians make like 80k a year and I bet they only encounter 1 or 2 dead bodies . . . 25 / hr. Um, no thanks.

Yeah, but they get really good medical. I watched this episode of Dirty Jobs (big fan, love the show) and Mike Rowe got to do some garbage man work in China Town in California, the guy he was working with was saying that the get good medical becuase there are so many back injuries on the job. Don't think they mentioned much about dead bodies (rats maybe). As for my dad, who is a locksmith, you'd be surprised to know that he has found dead bodies while on a job at abandoned buildngs and such. There was even a place that was harbouring illegal aliens. Aside form that he has met some celebraties.

@Everybody: I would not want to do the job because of the smell. Think what all that dead body parts smells like.

It's odd that they get paid less than garbage technicians, who make a heck of a lot, from what I gather - it's an enormously stable/helpful job - made less desirable by the fact that it involves sifting through people's rubbish...

@Ajadedidealist: Yeah, but do they wear gloves and a mask? I would think that any job which requires dealing with smelly trash or human remains would necessitate the need for one.

@Freyja I would hope they get really good medical! Being around garbage all the time, esp in this city, is likely to make anyone sick a fair amount! Which celebrities were locked out of their buildings?

@neversleeps: Off the top of my head, Lou Hudson (went to a small party at his house once, was embarrassing becuase I ran in to use the restroom), Cheech Maren, Mrs. Fields of Mrs. Fields Cookies(whom I caught up with a few years ago back in Idaho, she remembered my dad very well), and the original dog from Beethovan. I think one of the guys who played James Bond. Don't remember which. I would have to ask my dad of who else.

@Freyja Whoa! The original Beethoven! Awesome :)

Couldn't Bond have just used one of his super-special gadgets to open the door? Or, like, jet-pack in through the window?

@ajadedidealist Ha! I hope it wasn't Sean Connery. That would shatter my dreams of him as the best Bond.

Hah! especially if he's so un-Bond-like that he can't even break into his own house.

I bet it's Pierce Brosnan, he always struck me as milquetoast with a showy accent.

Ha.. Milquetoast Bond is a grand name for a cartoon character. One that should resemble Pierce Brosnan.

Brosnan is my least favorite Bond too, and Connery is my favorite.

@Everyone what no opinions on Daniel Craig the current Bond and what of Roger Moore?

Connery is everyone's favorite Bond. I don't mind Daniel Craig, though. Or Roger Moore. :)

You know, someone once told me that they thought it would be cool to see Sean Connery in a modern 007 movie. Playing a supporting role. In otherwords, training or supervising the new 007 or perhaps the current one. Since the reason that 007 keeps changing, from what I am told, is becuase 007 is more of a title not a particular person. Just like managers always change in business. When you move up you get a new title and someone gets your old title. Still, it is a great story thought.

@Everybody: I loved Roger Moore. I thought he was so dynamic as an actor. But I like Sean Connery better. I do not like the new one. He just doesn't fit the character that well.

@Everyone always thought Bond movies were great fun, remember some cable channel had a marathon of all of them not too long ago..and read somewhere that the Slumdog millionaire actress, Freida Pinto was auditioning for the part of Bong Girl dont quite see her in the same boat as say Ursula Andress in Dr.No.. oh well who cares about the Bond girls anyway..

@Uptowngirl: How many people do you think went to the movies to see the girls.Yeah, the men loved to see James Bond make out with the women. But in reality, it was James Bond and what he did that people went to see. It was his escapades that people wanted to watch. I loved the bond movies for the intrigue and mystery it represented.

I'm kind of annoyed with the attempt to turn Bond into a sensitive vulnerable guy with the advent of Daniel Craig, since that really kind of misses an essential aspect of the Bond character.

You want to see him save the world and still have every hair in place when he lands to kiss the girl.

@uptowngirl - LOL at "Bong Girl." I know it was a typo, but a Stoner Bond parody would be hilarious! Agreed, @uraniumfish! I like Connery and Brosnan the best for precisely that reason.

@Everyone: I just like the action of a 007 flick. However, I refuse to see th new one. I heard they made 007 a butthead in that one. I don't like who they picked either. One thing I do like about he moves is that there is always a new featued female singer for the theme song. Garbage had the best video "The World Is Not Enough" for it on MTV, too. Love Garbage. Don't worry I listen to a variety of music.

All Bonds aside, I am kind of a fan of Jason Bourne.

@BroadwayBK: I love that series. I have all the movies. Too, bad Matt wont be in the fourt one. I also, have all the books. Including the new one.

@ajadedidealist ooops sorry :)

Jason Bourne is okay. I did not see any of his movies. I'm into Stephen Seagull myself. I like the way he operates and uses his martial arts background to kick ass.

@hhusted Jason Bourne is the lead character in Robert Ludlum's books, I have read a few like Bourne Identity but haven't seen any of the movies.

@uptowngirl I haven't read any of the books, but I enjoyed the movies for what they are - not bad.

@Uptowngirl: I guess I will rent one just to see what it is like.

Give me some of them Humphrey Bogart noir antiheroes any day! Now, those were pretty darn attractive...

@Ajadedidealist: I like Humphrey Bogart, but I do not like war movies, if that is what you were implying.