What do you think of the new loitering law?

I think it's great. If a person spends three minutes doing nothing productive, like shopping or nightclubbing or otherwise contributing to commercial culture, surely it is ample proof of criminal intent?

I take it that is sarcasm, Kalevi and you think these laws are as ridiculous as I do?

Yes, it was sarcasm :-D

Despite SF's liberal reputation there is definetaly a strong reactionary sort of vibe that you get from some of the population. The more I read about it the more it seems like it is just a way to let the police get rid of anyone who they might think are "trouble-makers". Very arbitrary.

It reminds me a lot of the new illegal immigrant law in Arizona. It pretends to be a law that applies to everyone, but we all know that "looking illegal" and looks a whole lot like "looking hispanic". I doubt they will be pulling over many Canadians that have outstayed their Visas. In the same way, what does "loitering" look like anyway? It just gives a lot of powers to the Bull Conners of this world.

No kidding. If I am just waiting for a friend in front of a bar in SF and my friend is late, is that loitering?

It is if you happen have a shopping cart with all of your stuff in it with you, I guess.

Or if the bar owner just doesn't think you fit the look of their bar.

With laws like this, it is just a question of time before somebody over stretches their bounds and is caught abusing their powers. Human nature always takes over in the end.

@Doc, Hey, this might be a dumb question but who is Bull Conner?

He was a chief police either in Alabama or Mississippi. When Marting Luther King came to do some of his protests in his area, he prepared for him by giving his cops overtime and emptying out all the local jails in his and surrounding cities so that they could lock all the protesters up. He was a real true blue racist.

You can probably find him on Wikipedia. There is also that really great PBS series about the Civil Rights Movement--"Eyes on the Prize." He's in that too.

Thanks. Next time I'll Google him before asking.

At least it doesn't look like the law is being very aggressively enforced to this point. Check this out: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Existing-loitering-law-having-little-impact-87088877.html

What's the deal with that other law they mention in that article? You can't sit down or lay down on the side walk? That seems harsh.