Plus-sized Models are In While Skinny is Out

@hhusted hurrah for this ,maybe this is a trend in the making though I do think skinny models will always be in demand- clothes hang better of them you see . I was actually thinking of taking in a show of Colombian artist Fernando Bottero's works at the David Benrimon Fine Art Gallery on E 65th street. The artist is known for his pudgy figures some of which are in fact quite charming.

Pity that there has to be this separate category of "skinny" and "plus sized" - if models were at a healthier overall average weight, the dichotomy perhaps wouldn't be so striking, and it would be possible to promote a healthy range of body weights without it being either "you're a size 00" or "you're obese" as default modes. NYers are really skinny, though, I've noticed, compared to other places I've lived (Paris, Rome, Oxford). It does seem that NY restaurants are diet conscious: small portions, healthy, if sometimes fussy ingredients, etc. I once went to a pizzeria in Morningside Heights and had to try to convince them to give me pizza WITH gluten!

Bottero's really charming, uptowngirl. Lucian Freud is also pretty unapologetic about painting figures in all their shapeliness. His last big exhibit in NY was at the MOMA in 2008.

@uraniumfish thanks I love figurative work don't care how unfashionable it is to say so..

@ajadedidealist I do agree that NYkers are much fitter than most other Americans but portion sizes in restaurants( i dont mean fast food restaurants) here are by no means small. When my ma in law visits from London that's one of her main complaints she gets put off by the large portions that are served here. I often tell her that the doggy bag is an accepted way of NYC life but she refuses to wrap her mind around it ..

Agreed, uptowngirl. What is it with piling on the mounds of food they do here? And I've never been able to get into the doggie bag scene. Even the name seems somehow inelegant...

Hey, uptowngirl, and ajadedidealist, you think New Yorkers are skinny. That may be true, but have you been to Long Island. I took a trip out there recently and, my goodness, what fat people I saw. It seems the people in the suburbs are heavier and more out of shape than city people. I believe that is because city people do a lot of walking, while those in the suburbs depend on their cars to get around.

How strange - I found NYC portions much smaller than portions here in England (albeit, pub/village/Oxford England, not urbane London/England). Or at least, much healthier in terms of oil/sauce/etc...

@Uraniumfish: The obesity level in this country is very bad. In fact, it is one of the biggest health concerns in the United States. Everywhere you look, you see ads for food. And when you go out to eat, they like to stuff it down your throat. No wonder so many people are fat.

You notice it coming from Europe, that Americans are shockingly fat. NYC is better, probably because so many people are so image-conscious here. But in the rest of the US I have routinely spotted some incredibly large butts and guts on the streets. Incredibly large.

@hhusted youre so right about folks from the suburbs being addicted to their vehicles. A few years ago my husband's cousin visited us with her family over the Christmas holidays from New Jersey . She has two pre-teen boys and I thought that coming from N.J. they would enjoy walking around the city, getting on the subway etc. Boy how wrong I was .. those kids constantly whined about how cold it was and how they didn't want to walk and that they needed to jump into a cab.. and here stupid old me had gone and bought a second MetroCard for the visiting family to use..should have have just used the money to pay for cab fare.

@hhusted youre dead on when you say we are constantly bombarded with images of food in the US.. I notice this whenever I watch TV.. there are so many commercials advertising food that I invariably get hungry myself..

@Uptowngirl: That is the purpose of commercials. They want you to go out and spend the money on food so you get the food industry rich. They do this so you will be forced to invest in diet pills so you can lose weight. Then once you lose the weight, they bombard you with ads again to force you to eat. It is one vicious cycle. You need discipline to avoid the cycle.

I feel, that while there a lot of thin people here, I don't know that it's because of the food. I'm from California, and when I moved here, I had a really hard time adjusting to how heavy the food is. I feel like the lighter options are really limited compared to what I was used to eating. I'll grant you, I walk so much more than I ever have; but, it seems like even finding a salad (outside of chop't) that isn't chock full of pine nuts and cheese is kind of a chore.

@hhusted just read a report that celebrity trainer Jillian Michaels was recently sued over her diet pills line- http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hiEwTXjeUZz_whBVCuvixa7kHQzQD9DQCP281 People are deluded if they think they can just loose weight by popping pills, it takes a huge effort and essentially involves reducing your intake and upping the amount of physical activity that you do. @JenMac the delis around where I live offer salad bars that allow you to make your own salad combos in that way you can avoid all usual the diet saboteurs. One of my current favorites is spinach with oranges and cranberries..

How can people not enjoy walking, @uptowngirl? Granted, NYC in December can be freezing, but I find walking the most enjoyable and scenic way to keep fit! Especially when there's so much to see!

@ajadedidealist: I love walking in the summertime. Not now. It is much too cold to do any walking now. I hibernate in the winter.

Anyone else like walking a lot. I guess the best way to walk around in the cold is to have layers of clothes on.

@hhusted and @ajadedidealist I too love walking outdoors but on cold, windy days I feel quite miserable when the wind hits my face and usually duck into a subway station or ride the bus to avoid walking but come spring and summer I am usually out and about reveling in the warmth of the sun. Guess people who don't physical activity dont feel the same way....

Yeah, if you walk, workout at least twice a week, don't eat junk food, and eat healthy, you should be able to stay thin.

Back to the original topic at hand - I don't think skinny models are going to be "out" anytime soon. And plus sized models are definitely not "in," as hhusted noted there are few places that endorse them -but lately there are a few curvy women appearing on covers, like Christina Hendricks on New York mag: http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/christina-hendricks-mad-men-star-unwitting-poster-girl-brand-beauty/story?id=9852957 Anyway, every few years or so the fashion industry declares curvier women fashionable, but so far - since the rise of the model with the eating disorder - it hasn't really panned out.

I wonder if such things as skinny or fat models is just a fad. I truly wonder.

Wow, Christina Hendricks is absolutely gorgeous! But she's an anomaly - fashion models have been insanely skinny for a while now. "Healthy-sized" was in in the 80's (think of athletic models like Brinkley and Crawford) but I think we're stuck with waifs for the time being. Though CH can outclass them all, and not just in size.

@hhusted the weight of a skinny model has been quite a controversial topic over the past few years in places like Milan, Madrid and Barcelona there have been bans instituted on underweight models. However extremely think models created quite a stir at the Sao Paulo Fashion week recently -http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/22/extremely-thin-models-cau_n_432815.html. In spite of this I don't think the size 00 model will disappear anytime soon simply because designers think that clothes hang better on them than their curvier sisters. So a the skinny model is not a fad but sadly the curvy model definitely is no matter how many appreciative comments she elicits.

@ajadedidealist I used to be a huge Cindy Crawford fan and I agree Christina Hendricks is fabulous.

Here's Karl Lagerfeld being rather "charming" on this subject: http://www.stylelist.com/2009/10/12/karl-lagerfeld-defends-skinny-models-no-one-wants-to-see-roun/

Recently, Ralph Lauren got themselves in a soup when someone pointed out how hideously they had photoshoped a model's image to make her more skinny: http://www.lemondrop.co.uk/2009/10/09/ralph-lauren-owns-up-to-freakish-photoshopped-image/ Here is boingboing's defiant answer to Ralph Lauren trying to muscle them into shutting up: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/10/06/the-criticism-that-r.html I had a good laugh over that little to-do.

I think either way - really skinny or really voluptuous like Hendricks - they are still promoting unreasonable standards of beauty. Just saying. And I'm sure the skinny model thing is just a fad - like all things in fashion - it just happens to be an extensively long one. Maybe there would be curvier women on the runways if less designers were gay! Those skinny women are rather boyish... Ugh, Karl Lagerfield. Why do these people only think in dichotomies? If you're not unbearably thin, then you're siting in front of the TV with a bag of crisps complaining about how thin models are? Pu-leeze. And did anyone else vomit after looking at that Ralph Lauren ad? Oh, well, guess I'll return to my crisps now....

@Uraniumfish thanks for those links.. especially the Karl Lagerfield one..couldn't stop reading all those comments. As a member of the curvy brigade the debate was most interesting!.

Yes, Mr. Lagerfeld is rather "special" isn't he? You can read his twitter posts here. They are always "articulate." http://twitter.com/KARL_LAGERFELD

@Uraniumfish Karl Lagerfeld's statement on Twitter are so contrived an self-conscious. Like he's trying too hard to be an artist. @Everybody Last summer I went went to the beach with a big group of friends. One of the women was considered very beautiful and she was model-skinny. She's a well-known musician and people make a big deal over her. Anyways, my eye was definitely roving over to the women in the group in their bikinis. You know, you can't help a little innocent looking. I have to say that I found her skinniness TOTALLY unattractive. She looked scary without her clothes on, like a corpse. You could see her ribs. Yuck! Not for me. So I have to disagree with Karl Lagerfeld and say I love to look at women with a little flesh on them and find that very very beautiful.

Someone should put Karl Lagerfeld out of his misery - it looks like he's just hoping to be re-Tweeted or quoted with those Tweets. I wonder who he thinks he's impressing with such statements as: "Like poetry, fashion does not state anything. It merely suggests."

Ugh, Lagerfeld - he wants to be a mix of Oscar Wilde and Andy Warhol and fails at both!

@ajadedidealist Yes, and miserably!

I took a look at Karl's picture and he looks like a gangster. Somehow, my vibes are telling me he is up to illegal activities, but I cannot say for sure. Just my psychic awareness talking. Also, I disagree with his statement that fashion is "like poetry, fashion does not state anything. It merely suggests." If you look at the overly skinny models posing with what seems to be very stylish gowns on, you can see what fashion does. It states that women have to be very skinny to pose for such things. I cannot accept a woman like that. I prefer a woman with a little meat on her. That skinny crap is for the birds. It forces those girls to stop eating just so they can make money. Next thing that happens is the girls develop mental disorders over food.

Although I completely agree that the models have gotten out of control skinny, I always try to remember the fact that the designers are selling their clothes -- not the girls. They want a specific kind of body that brings only attention to their clothing . . nothing else. They consider their art and obviously a nice big butt and giant boobs is going to be pretty distracting to how something is laying. They're not selling the fantasy of the every day. It's an unattainable fantasy thing that they're going for. Also, a lot of these girls are under 18. I, myself, looked like a whippet when I was that age.

@DBlack@hhusted thank god for men like you !

When stores or designers use fit models for non-couture clothing, they usually use a girl who is about a size 5 or 6 - normal, in other words. So couture is one thing, but when clothes are made for the rest of us they are actually made with the average woman in mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitting_model

@BroadwayBK what drives me mad is the lack of standardization in sizes here in US. My size seems to vary from brand to brand .. I try to shop online but often land up going to return stuff( just returned two pairs of jeans this afternoon. Have learned that I actually have to try on stuff before buying maybe my body is just weirdly made...

No, uptowngirl, it isn't you. The manufacturer uses different kinds of materials. They often treat the materials in special chemicals so it looks and feels a certain way. This is why you can try on a pair of pants from one rack and it fits right, and take a pair of pants from another rank from a different manufacturer, and it won't fit, but it is the same size.

@uptowngirl I know exactly what you mean - and I hate when stores use "vanity" sizing. As in, regularly I'm a 4/5, but I'm a 2 in stores that use vanity sizing. Like making me a smaller size at your store is actually going to make me want to shop there more! I seriously doubt that your body is weirdly made, more like the clothes are weirdly made. I try everything on, too, and I won't buy anything at a store that doesn't have a decent return policy.

I had this complicated discussion with a sales clerk at Banana republic, because they use two sizing systems--one is obviously the vanity sizing as you pointed out. In one system I was a 4, in another system I was a 2. I really really needed that shirt but in another color, and the conversation about placing the order turned into a comedy routine. Gaaa. Why do they have to make it so complicated? I'm perfectly okay with the thought of being a 4 and never asked to be coddled. Or, let's say, if I were ashamed of my size, THINKING myself into a smaller size aint gonna change reality.

@uptowngirl Is there standardization in sizes in other countries? I've traveled a bit but I guess I didn't really do much retail therapy abroad. @everyone I agree with you on vanity sizing - it makes little sense. It does not make me feel better about myself, which would be very sad, and it does not make me want to shop more at stores that participate in such confusing things. @Uraniumfish Did they have two different size systems because one was for people who ordered things online? I've never heard of a store doing that.

They had the petite line and they had the normal line. A 2 petite is the same as a 4 normal. Exactly the same only they sew on a different label. Or wait, was that a 4 petite is a 2 normal. Gaaa. There it goes again. No, it wasn't online. I was in the store and they were going to get my shirt from another store. What else is this whole petite/ normal measurement but vanity sizing.

That's really strange - I sometimes pick up the petite version of things - especially pants, because even though I am average height they tend to make pants sooooo long. I am usually a 4 in petite sizes, though, as well as "short" jeans. I guess it all depends on what numbers the store feels like putting on the tags. So yeah, the only difference I've noticed in petites is that the pant legs and sleeves tend to be shorter.

When I read everyone's comments about clothes sizes, I have to agree that in most cases, the clothes are usually designed differently by each manufacturer. So when one type of clothing fits well, another one of the same size won't. Strange way to make clothes, but that seems to be the way it is. I guess that is a lure to get people into the store.

What a relief to read all these comments proves I am not the one lumped with a weird body. I was really bummed because a pair of jeans that I ordered online in my normal size didnt fit when they got here.I thought I had put on weight and was in a real funk even though my other jeans in that size still fit perfectly. I know pure and simple logic should prevail in such cases but all that flew out of the window that evening... @Neversleeps I think there is more standardization in the UK where I do tend to spend a few months ever year. My size doesnt seem to differ as much between brands.

@everyone has anyone heard of Sensa? My Daily Candy mail today is offering a 30 day trial of Sensa which seems to be an appetite suppressant of some sort which you sprinkle on normal foods. Have a look-http://www.trysensa.com/. Now I do go the gym every morning and try and watch what I eat .. but am tempted to try it ..especially since I am relocating soon to the land of the small and petite ..

No, uptowngirl, I never heard of Sensa. I really don't need appetite suppressants. I heard somewhere they are not safe. Anybody hear that to?

@ uptowngirl Haven't heard of Sensa but would really stay away from things like that on principle. I am quite small, even for a woman, and I lived in Germany for a while, the land of the tallest people you can imagine. I have a photo of me standing next to some German friends and I barely come up to their shoulders. I look like a child, and I can tell you it wasn't easy psychologically, since I'm not keen on being talked down to, literally. But you know what, uptowngirl, we are made how we are made, and we are all beautiful in our various shapes and sizes. I say keep on exercising and eating healthy foods, and let the rest be.

I find sizes to be absolutely impossible - I go between a 00 and an 8, depending, which is enormously difficult when it comes to trying things on! Clearly I'm just abnormally shaped.

@ajadedidealist That's insane... I don't think I've ever heard of anyone fluctuating that much. Is it because you shop internationally so much? @uptowngirl I'm curious about Sensa... and Alli as well, as it was the first FDA approved diet pill or appetite suppressant or whatever you want to call it. When I was in college I used to take a diet pill in order to pull an all-night study-a-thon - those things make your pulse race and it's impossible to sleep. No idea what kind of effects Sensa and Alli have, however. But I don't know if I would take those things on a regular basis.

@Uraniumfish I am 5ft 8" tall and of normal build for the US but I feel like a giant in Asia where buying shoes and clothes is a major problem. I am currently trying to cram a whole year's shopping into a few months as I know I will not have the chance to shop once I am there. I am not a shopaholic but like everybody like a few nice, new things off and on.. I was really bummed about that jeans issue and guess got intrigued by the Sensa advert. I have never really tried any of these faddy things not even Jenny Craig/Weight Watchers which some of my friends follow. Thanks for the reality check anyway.

@BroadwayBK from the adverts for Alli it seems as if getting 'the runs' is a side effect of the drug...:(

@Uptowngirl: Trust me. I am a trained counselor and nutritionist. Plus, I get a lot of emails from a certified nutritionist. Those supplements are no good. Do yourself a favor and stay away from them. Just eat right, exercise, take the proper vitamins, and you'll be fine.

@uptowngirl Awful! Also, I have a friend who frequently travels to Asia and because she is so tall can't fit into any of the clothes. From what I hear, I would have problems getting my hips into them as well?

@BroadwayBK oh yes! the Asian size is definitely small boned and small hipped as well not to mention short in length.. you can get clothes custom tailored though but that can also be a hit and miss at times.

Uptowngirl: Have you ever considered cutting all sugar out of your diet? It's not only supposed to be good for you but most people drop an insane amount of weight in a really small time. And, they all say they feel really great.

@uptowngirl Guess I won't be doing much shopping on any future trips to Asia. Whenever I want to lose a few pounds quickly, I switch to a (balanced) vegan diet. Nothing has ever worked better for me. I eat a lot of soy and am mostly veggie anyway, but cutting out both meat and dairy cuts back on a lot of fats.

Cutting down carbohydrate intake is key, and eating carbohydrates only at certain times-- for example a few hours before you do an evening workout is okay, but late in the evening before you go to sleep is awful for you. white bread is full of sugar! Cut out those side dishes of fries, too. Cut out most cheeses, except white ones like feta. Go for meat and vegetables and fruits. Varied exercise routine doesn't hurt either.

@everyone Thanks for all the helpful advice but I do tend to eat quite healthily and because I am terrified of diabetes do really watch my carb and sugar intake. I can't really change my body shape I do have wide shoulders and I am tall and can't really shrink that much to fit into an Asian size. Its not just me many other foreigners who live in HK complain about the same issues and tend to do all their shopping for clothes overseas.

@Uptowngirl: You are right. Too much sugar is not good for you. Also not good for you is anything white. It is bleached and all vitamins are removed from it. Also, stay away from corn syrup as this is also bad for you as it contains too much fatty acids.

@uptowngirl For the record, uptowngirl, I wasn't posting all of that to preach to you in any way about what you should do, just sharing how I eat and try to stay fit for myself! I get the feeling you're doing okay without advice from me...

@DBlack Yeah, until I got upbraided for this and tutored in the ways of a healthful diet, I actually thought cheese was a valid way to get your protein. I don't have a lot of trouble now staying at the weight I want, and I do a lot of the things you mentioned.

And replace your oils with olive oil - it's by far healthier than butter, sesame seed oil, corn syrup, etc., it's delicious, and it's good brain food! And my mother swears it helps you lose weight by digesting better, but that could be an old wives' tale

Actually, ajadedidealist, extra virgin olive oil is the best. Olive oil is made up of about 71% monounsaturated, 16% saturated, and 13% polyunsaturated oils. When going for this type of oil, try to go for the one that has “extra virgin” on the label. Extra virgin refers to when the olives are pressed first. This allows the antioxidants to stay in the olive. Extra virgin olive oil is not manufactured like other oils. Therefore, it does not contain harmful industrial solvents. By the way, your mother is right about it helping lose weight, because it doesn't contain the fatty stuff that puts weight on you.

Huh, good to know, @hhusted! I cook with copious amounts of olive oil, and I'm glad to know I can do so guilt-free. I always go for extra-virgin olive oil - it's one place that the extra $1-2 a bottle are really worth the health benefits.

It shows. :) BTW, I meant that as a compliment.

@hhusted and ajadedidealist what I especially love is the Extra Virgin Oil Spray. You get it at Trader Joe's and its brilliant for frying, sauteeing and even making fried eggs. Do you think I could take a few cans with me in my checked baggage when I move ? I am sure I will not get the EVO spray overseas.

@uptowngirl You keep reminding me of all the reasons I used to go to Trader Joe's every other day.... Think I need to start doing that again! It's just such a long walk to the L train when it's chilly outside.

@uptowngirl - last night I was making dinner for my boyfriend. Went to the farmer's market for fresh eggplant, fresh walnuts (even shelled them myself!), etc, for a perfect, farm-fresh meal. I started with a dash of extra virgin olive oil. The second I turn my back while the eggplant is frying, my boyfriend pours some standard-grade vegetable oil on my perfect mixture to help it cook. His logic? "It tastes the same." I nearly cried...

@ajadedidealist Oh no! How could anyone do that to eggplant?

@Ajadedidealist: Your boyfriend does not understand nutrition. In reality, most people don't understand nutrition. You will have to educate him, so he'll understand that.

@ajadedidealist I completely understand how you feel..I even cook Indian food in EVO.. I really don't think it alters the taste as some purists aver.

@Uptowngirl and @Ajadedidealist: According to my certified nutritionist friend, he stated EVO has a slight better taste to it. Not much.It takes a trained taster to know, but the nutritional value of EVO over other oils can't even come close. So in using EVO, definitely have a nutritional advantage.

@ajadeidealist Um, the repetition thing is becoming spooky.

@Uraniumfish: Sometimes repetition is a good thing. It helps you become really good at whatever you do. Practice makes perfect.