Learning Chinese in NYC Public Schools

@ajadedidealist I am due to move to the Far East soon and was excited about studying Cantonese/ Mandarin there but on my last visit to Hong Kong some American friends live there who have made me very apprehensive by saying that its really tough! Yesterday I came across this article-http://www.philly.metro.us/us/article/2010/01/28/02/1149-82/index.xml which seems to indicate that learning Chinese is definitely going to catch on.

I agree with you about studying Latin. I grew up in Florida and definitely did not ever have a Chinese language option in school. But it's not a bad idea to make it an option in schools. I understand that the word order is completely strange to an English speaker, and the characters make it even more difficult. So perhaps they should consider teaching it to very young children as well? I think languages should be taught in elementary schools, anyway, when people are young enough to easily grasp a new one.

I grew up partly in Florida and did have a Chinese language option in school. My school was so large and so diverse, we could even choose Swahili, along with more standard options like Latin and Greek. I actually opted for French, but in college I regretted that and did study Mandarin after all. I had Spanish way early on, from about 1st or 2nd grade.I had Latin in about 6th Grade. Not very much, but enough to get the basics, which made learning French later on much easier. I don't necessarily feel I missed out by not having more Latin than I did. If I'd had to actually suffer through Latin verb conjugations too much I doubt I would appreciate it now quite as much, especially since I had no interest in becoming a scholar in a subject in which Latin would have been necessary. On the other hand, I'm glad I learned Mandarin, because it broke my head wide open to the way that language functions so differently from European, Latin-based languages I had been used to. Which made me appreciate how other people are bound to see the world completely differently than me, even at the basic level of language. Anyway, my two cents: Whereas the idea of a well-educated individual used to mean you had your Latin and your Greek in school, I think the standards of a modern well-educated individual are somewhat different now. Not drastically different, but less Latin, more Mandarin, and not much Greek at all seem to be the new norm. Well, okay, some of my friends studied Japanese instead of Chinese, but you get my point.

@uptowngirl Some things about learning Chinese are much more simple. For example, there are no verb tenses. Sentence construction follows certain basic patterns. Once you get the four tones down (We did this in about a week of constant repetition) the rest is about learning vocabulary. Writing and reading Chinese is about a thousand times more difficult, though, because the characters are so complicated. Spoken Chinese is not too terrible. Don't be discouraged, uptowngirl!

@Uraniumfish Where did you live in Florida? Miami? Orlando? You were lucky in your early education, because I can't say much for mine.

I agree with the above posters about learning a language earlier on - it's a great way to internalize not just vocabulary but also linguistic skills at a younger age. I learned French and Italian when I was under 6, and as a reuslt, while I'm rusty, I find learning languages quite easy, and pick both old and new tongues up quickly! I'm convinced it's because of learning so many languages as a young child.

I'm neutral when it comes to other languages. I studied Italian in high school for two years and liked it. I also studied Spanish in college for a year, but didn't really like it that much. I thought Italian was a much easier and better language to learn. I was told Italian is even sexier than Spanish, but I can't confirm that. I also know French is good as well. I had a French teacher in high school and she was great.

Miami and Ft Lauderdale. I think north of that you have a no-man's land, culturally speaking, till you hit DC. Okay, maybe I'm being a snob by saying so.

Not really. Though I've lived in Lauderdale and wouldn't rate it too highly on the culture scale.

@uraniumfish thanks.. apparently I have already been signed up for Chinese classes. Its a part of the deal. I actually studied French all throughout school and went on to do my Diplome de Langue Française at the Alliance Francaise in Mumbai. My spoken French is bit rusty now as I havent had much of a chance to use it but can understand,read and write the language quite adequately.

@uptowngirl Yeah, Chinese won't be anything at all like French. Not one bit. It really is a whole different world.

@uraniumfish I do hope I succeed at the conversation level it would be extremely helpful especially when bargaining with vendors at the wet market i.e. traditional open food markets.

@Uptowngirl: When you do travel, good luck with your adventures. Are you still going to be commenting in this forum? If so, I would love to read of your adventures.

@hhusted I will be so homesick I bet I will long after the project has run its course..havent learned of a departure date as yet...

@uptowngirl You should definitely be able to pick up a good amount of conversational Chinese. It's especially well suited for that. Will you be learning Mandarin or Cantonese, or...?

@uraniumfish since the place of relocation is Hong Kong I guess it will be Cantonese? I havent found out as yet though I believe conversational Mandarin is easier to grasp. A family friend who has lived in HK for over 30 years and speaks Cantonese was telling me this so lets see if I have a choice..honestly I am quite excited about it..:)

Also if I want to get a job in Hong Kong I think it is quite necessary to know either. Saw a posting for an English proof reader for a financial services firm but the requirements were must know Cantonese and Mandarin in addition to English!

Cantonese has six tones, whereas Mandarin has only four. For people who are not used to the tone system, tones can be very confusing. That's why spoken Mandarin is a bit easier as an introductory language. It's also more practical, since Mandarin is the default language all over China. However, after my year of Mandarin I was very disappointed that I couldn't order in a restaurant in Chinatown. Turns out that a majority of the Chinese immigrants who established and still reside in NYC's Chinatown are from Canton province! After all that work!

@Uraniumfish my cousin who grew up in Singapore and was forced to learn Mandarin had quite the opposite experience. We wereonce at our favorite dim sum restaurant in NYC Chinatown- Golden Unicorn on East Broadway and he ordered for the table while speaking Mandarin to the wait staff. They were so thrilled that the manager actually offered him a job at restaurant's supposedly sister restaurant in Hong Kong!

That's great! Perhaps it was only shyness on my part, but I never did try out my Mandarin much. It's true that most of the people in Chinatown probably speak both Mandarin and Cantonese. Well I've forgotten so much by now I doubt I could impress anyone.

So, getting back to the original topic, I think it's great to have Mandarin as a language offering in schools. Even if you never use it later on - I use my grade school Spanish pretty much never - it's good to expose children to other languages early on.

If you can learn a new language, I'd say go for it. I think any time you study another language, you also learn about the culture as well. Can be exciting to learn.

I read a really interesting article about the language barrier in Chinatown even among those Chinese who can only speak Cantonese or Mandarin. Here it is - http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/in-chinatown-mandarin-sweeps-cantonese-aside/ - I found it fascinating..

That's great that they're teaching kids Chinese in Public schools. I want my kid to learn Chinese. Definitely. Why not? It will make her smarter and more sophisticated. I remember hearing about Chinese in some schools in Minnesota some years ago and thought it was great. It actually makes a lot of sense that something like this would happen in New York, which is such an international city anyway. I wish I'd learned some Chinese. By comparison my French now seems boring...

Here is another Times article about Chinese in NYC Public schools. Interesting that other foreign languages are getting cut from curriculums (curricula?) But Chinese is growing... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/education/21chinese.html

Why is Chinese so important to learn? I am just curious to know. There are other languages that seem to be more prevalent like Spanish (considering NYC has more Hispanics than Asians). Any ideas?

@hhusted almost every economic survey has noted the tremendous growth of China over the past two decades. Along with India, China is expected to dominate global economic growth in the coming decades. There are bound to be opportunities for everyone who wants to work in / trade with China and it is definitely beneficial to know the language if you do.

@hhusted have look at this article which kind of tells you about the growing importance of China to a global financial center like NYC-http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1896d04c-1746-11df-94f6-00144feab49a.html

Thanks for the link, uptowngirl. I'll have a look.

@hhusted The article I posted is an interesting read because it identifies a couple of factors. One is the growing interest in Chinese because parents want their kids to be competitive in a global marketplace. The other, and this a little weird, is because China itself is sending language teachers out all over the world, and paying their salaries so they can spread the Chinese language. Which means even the Chinese government knows that to be competitive on the world stage, they have to be able to cross language barriers.

Has anyone ever taken any adult Chinese classes in the city?

I never took Chinese. I consider it too hard to understand. If it means life or death or me to learn it, then I'll take part in studying the language. Until then, I'll stay with English.

Actually, now that I think about it, learning a new language might be fascinating, if I can get time for it.

Among my classmates, several were encouraged to take Chinese because of their interests in going into "business" - it was seen as way to get a leg up in various financial sector businesses.

@ajadeidealist Guess that's now more and more the perception, and therefore the practice.